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Barry Lyndon, Christy Birmingham, Frances Wright, Georgian England, Lady Mary Bowes, Marraige in Georgian England, New book, Poetic parfait, poetry, Shehanne Moore, The Writer and the Rake, time travellers, Women
Have You Heard of the Hellfire Club? The Lot of Women in Georgian England (Guest Post) Shehanne Moore
Here with me today is historical romance author Shehanne Moore. We go back a ways, Shey and I, so when I heard about her new book The Writer and the Rake, I asked her to come visit the blog. She kindly agreed to write a guest post, and, wow, she has provided quite a read about Georgian England, women, and the writing process. Now, let’s give Shehanne Moore the stage.
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Let’s be clear here, this is not a paean of praise to Francis Dashwood’s exclusive club for high society rakes. When meetings often included mock rituals, items of a pornographic nature, much drinking, wenching and banqueting, what kind of a person do you think I am? And while the hero of my latest book has every selfish reason to appear enlightened about women, he has a point. Women were not able to walk into a tavern and drink in these days, the way they do now. In fact, a woman’s lot in 1765 was one to die for and not as we have come to know that term either.
Firstly, let me thank this very special woman, Christy Birmingham, for asking me, a romance author, to her blog today. It’s a great pleasure to be here and to know Christy, one of the most supportive women I know, a tremendous poet and an intelligent advocate for us ladies. My home town, Dundee, gave the U.S. Fanny Wright, lecturer, writer, freethinker, feminist, abolitionist, and social reformer, born here in 1795.
Where the lot of Georgian women was concerned it’s a pity she hadn’t been born a bit earlier and hadn’t been lost to across the pond.
My idea in writing this book was to take Brittany, a young woman from today’s world and have her flit between Georgian England and the present day. You know ,I even thought how nice, gracious and sedate that Jane Austenish world would be, that within hours of arriving, she’d be so calmed by the green-fielded pleasantry and ladies in rustic bonnets everywhere, she’d fall totally in love with this charming world. DUH. What is it they say about the best laid plans? The more I looked into this alien galaxy and the lot of women, the clashier, not classier, this became. And not just between my hero and heroine either. What was interesting was the things I had to go to bat for re this book.
The hero is a rake but before anyone thinks too badly of him, a lot of upper crust men from that era were because most society marriages were arranged. Sometimes affection grew but not for my hero, whose shy, awkward, naïve, young wife, he was railroaded into marrying at sixteen, hated him on sight, so he joined the ranks of men who went elsewhere. At least he didn’t force the issue which he would have been perfectly within his rights to do.
If, as a woman, you think you would have been free to say no, or choose your spouse, think again. You and your belongings, all these nice shoes, bags, books, everything in fact you thought were yours, were, in fact, your hubby’s. Take the case of rich heiress, Lady Mary Bowes, an ancestor of Queen Elizabeth 2nd, and the subject of The Luck of Barry Lyndon, by Thackeray. Her second husband kidnapped her, beat, gagged and carried her around the countryside on horseback, in winter, all to stop her divorcing him and keep his hands on her fortune.
And to think my editor initially complained after my hero, at the end of his tether and really not understanding why my heroine wouldn’t do what he asked regarding the servants, stuck her under a water pump.
Talking servants, Mary Bowes escaped only with the help of loyal ones. The initially sympathetic public were affronted to learn of her affair with her lawyer’s brother and felt she was quite wrong not to hand her money over to her abusive, swindling, husband.
Interestingly, that was another editorial clash where no questions were raised over my hero but some shock was expressed that my heroine had a history of getting drunk in the present day and went with random men.
So, that’s marriage. Next up? Childbirth. In Georgian England, public opinion was against contraception within marriage. Romance writers Google all sorts –ahem—let’s face it, these things have to be looked after.
And, I understand sheep’s intestines were all the rage for prevention. Soaked in water, of course, for an hour beforehand and torture to get on. Small wonder my hero quite welcomed the contents of my heroine’s bag. Childbirth was one of the most dangerous threats to a woman’s health and life. Up to 20% of women died during or after childbirth. Small wonder too my heroine wants back to her time.
Childbirth wasn’t the only killer. Noblewomen—and we are talking noblewomen here, although the lot of a poor woman was as bad in different ways— noblewomen caught diseases passed on from their husband’s prostitutes. They suffered barbaric ‘bleedings’ during pregnancies, developed lead poisoning from their make up, indeed as my heroine Brittany thinks–
The Lot of Georgian Women. Quote by Shehanne Moore.
And before anyone thinks their lives were frivolous in their smelly gowns—wash day once a month, baths very seldom—their powdered wigs it took hours to arrange, the lady of the house was tasked with running that same house, of getting up early to instruct the servants on their daily duties and supervise the kitchen, because the servants were mostly illiterate and couldn’t write things down, meal choices, polishing, etc. before sitting down to breakfast at eleven. My heroine thinks the eleven bit is quite civilized but that’s it.
So I think we get the picture that a Georgian lady’s lot was anything but happy. Live in that time? Thank you. No. As for whether Brittany finds anything to recommend it, you’d have to ask her.
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Extract from The Writer and The Rake
“While it might not pay to underestimate this man, what if this morning was an aberration? Now that he saw how domestic she was, he’d go away again and drop this nonsense about instructing the servants. In what way? If she wrote Regency romance, she might know but she didn’t and frankly she’d other things to consider. Besides she couldn’t. If she was successful he wouldn’t need her.She slipped her gaze back, bestowed her kindest smile on the young man opposite. Mitchell Killgower took another sip of brandy.
“God-fearing, you say?”
“It is what one of us, I can’t remember if it was you, or me, or even Fleming here, told Christian. Or maybe, she told us. But, obviously it is a condition that prevents me from giving too many orders. And frankly I feel it solves everything.”
“Do you?”
“Do I what? Darling, I’m sorry I don’t know what you’re on about.”
“The fact that this condition solves everything.”
She kept her gaze firmly on the wool. Her hands winding it too. Mitchell Killgower sounded quite happy for him. Satisfied as he nursed his drink.
“Yes.”
“So as conditions go, it does not prevent you from sitting on your backside?”
“You know, I almost think you’re taken with my backside, the amount of times you mention it.”
“Sometimes your thoughts fail to come remotely close to what I’m really thinking. To do that you’d have to fully think.”
She smothered a grimace. “Oh, I think all right.”
He set the glass down as if he’d made up his mind. She hoped it was to let her win this battle.
“Good, then you’ll have no trouble coming with me, seeing as you’re so God-fearing, Brittany. After all, a God-fearing wife obeys her husband.”
“Well, they must be several sandwiches short of the proverbial picnic. Anyway.” She stopped winding the ball of wool, tilted her chin. “I didn’t think God-fearing wives were your cup of tea, or that you expected a woman to obey you? Except in certain places.”
The Writer and the Rake Book Blurb
Is having it all enough when it’s all you’ll ever have?
When it comes to doing it all, hard coated ‘wild child’ writer, Brittany Carter ticks every box. Having it all is a different thing though, what with her need to thwart an ex fiancé, and herself transported from the present to Georgian times. But then, so long as she can find her way back to her world of fame, and promised fortune, what’s there to worry about?
He saw her coming. If he’d known her effect he’d have walked away.
Georgian bad boy Mitchell Killgower is at the center of an inheritance dispute and he needs Brittany as his obedient, country mouse wife. Or rather he needs her like a hole in the head. In and out of his bed he’s never known a woman like her. A woman who can disappear and reappear like her either.
And when his coolly contained anarchist, who is anything but, learns how to return to her world and stay there, will having it all be enough, or does she underestimate him…and herself?
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Thanks for being here today, Shehanne! I have my copy of The Writer and the Rake and hope you pick up a copy too. Get The Writer and the Rake at Amazon US | Amazon Canada | Amazon UK
You can also find Shehanne Moore on social media at Facebook, Pinterest, and Twitter.
Find out more at her self-titled Weebly site and follow her Smexy Historical Romance blog too!
Now back to reading and writing here,
♥ Christy
Thanks kindly for the reblog, Shey! And for the nice words about my book too.. Donovan does make me smile 🙂 Sing away, sing, sing…!! Haha 😉 So happy with the great response your guest post got on Poetic Parfait! Way to go! I hope The Writer and the Rake is flying off the digital shelves! HUGS
I was totally gobsmacked Christy re the response. I thought I would be lucky to get maybe three or four comments. So of course I was gonna reblog it!! You are very welcome re showing off your book. The dudes are always hopeful you will take Donovan away. Of course you never really left him here, all you said was IF you had a hamster that was what you would call them, Lovely to see you xxxxxxxx
“… a ton of women in Georgian times” ?. I didn’t know that they had Ye Olde Junk Foode McDonalds then ! Live and learn !
Great post dear Christy, Shey and your hammies 🙂 ❤ ❤ ❤
HEE HEE. I know. I thought of the fun I could have with that word. Then of course at that time the posh folks were known as the TON. Like actual posh society as a whole was called that,. Maybe that was why. xxx
lol. I learn a lot on your blog, don’t I Shey ? (Not from you, your hamsters !) heehee 🙂 ❤
I wouldn’t have done so well in those times, but I enjoy your reselling of them.
I would not have lasted five mins Leslie. I think I would have got a cave somewhere with a big gate on it, set up a survivors club for us ladies in it! Hmm…There’s an idea for a series. x
Works for me! Save me a spot.
Your name is on it Leslie
Wonderfully entertaining post, both interview and book preview. I’m so enjoying following your blog Shey 🙂
You are so kind, I am doing a wee happy dance here. I am afraid we are not what you might call sensible here, just daft. And I don’t always reblog blogs I have had out elsewhere–lol– I am already onto the next blog for me–but I wanted to thank Christy Birmingham for inviting me over. I love your blog too. Your craft posts are especially beautiful xxxxxxx
I like daft 🙂
Oh good, there’s plenty of it here x
And here I thought the Hellfire Club was a group of mutant supervillains in the Marvel Comics Universe led by Sebastian Shaw…..
Me thinks I am showing too much fanboy here!!
HA HA. Another big giggle of the morning, fanboy! I think the Hellfire Club would make a great modern premise for a set of supervillains . Why has no-one ever thought of that? I am laughing cos one of the first posts I did for this book, it had been mentioned—talking Sebastian–that that is the name of the heroine’s ex fiancé who kept hamsters in cages. (I am getting like Alfred Hitchcock and the cameo appearance in something re the hamsters in my books.) Anyway, they went titz, shouting ‘ Kill him.’ ‘He disrespected hamsters.’ You know there could be a part for them as superheroes or villains. This could run…
Nice 👍🏽
Ka xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Lovely to see you today xxxx
oh dear, I’m sticking to this time, thank you., I’ll read about it in your book, Shehanne and discuss it with the dudes if they want to, but that’s it. No lice ridden sheep wigs for me. xx
I am sticking too. I would have died to have been Brittany. But then I’d have died to have been her granddaughter Malice, whisked back from 1819 to the Vikings. too I guess it is relative. I mean apart from feeling the law was an absolute ass re women in 1819 she thought that a very civilized time. It is indeed what we are used to. But really the fashions in this Georgian time were astoundingly nutz. These wigs were several feet high. Women could not get through doors with them. And there were written reports of there being mice in them. MY God. They couldn’t get through doors with these crinolines either. No way would I have wanted to live then. I can’t see a thing to recommend it. I was saying to Leslie, I’d have found some cave away from it all. Lovely to see you Adele, you are an angel. xxxxxxx
So sorry for late reply to this Shehanne, the Next Great Horror Writers Comp challenges are sitting on my shoulders along with a ton of stress. Anyhoo, thank you so much for saying I’m an angel, if you could’ve said that to my teachers at school…….lol. I would have been joing you in that cave, I used to wear corsets as over wear not underwear to go with the huge goth dresses and omg, the relief whent the corsests came off. Take care my friend and say hi to the dudes. xxx
What a time to live in. Certainly not my idea of bliss. Love the way you stick to the facts while providing such wonderful entertainment, Shey!
AW Cat, (The 20 quid is winging its way.) Seriously I think one would want to provide entertainment when you look at how awful all this was. How folks lived was not something to relish. And I always find how they lived interesting. xxx
Oh, wow, first – let’s get us to the Hell Club pronto; and second, I tell my daughters this all the time, that you have no idea how fortunate you are to be a woman in this century; and third, no way on the ostumazeCa; and fourth and finally, if I ever fantasize about time travel I just need a two-word reminder: flush toilets. Great post, Milady, Shey.😍
Time travel? Yes. EXACTLY. I always think that these books and films where the door is opened on another world, there is this WOW, factor, someone needs a boot in what we call the Behoochie. it would be fabulous to go back and find the real truth behind some events or meet some historical person you think is brilliant and I think we do fantasize re that. But the reality of how people lived is it for me. Initially I thought this tranquil world will be one my heroine needs, to calm her down, let her see the errors of her boozing, smoking, pulling randoms ways. While the brick walls she careered off may have caused dents, I let some of the mutual reshaping of him and her, come from their interaction. When it comes to being a woman today, well I am from Dundee and it is said here, cos the women were traditionally the breadwinners here. we just wait for the rest of the world to catch up. And I also think there is a swathe cut across the UK because the Northern tribes, the Picts, the Celts, even the Vikings, they gave their women their place. The Romans were shocked to see that the Celtic women had power . BUT that does not detract from the lot of women generally in the past. The women who worked here in the jute mills instead of the men, were pretty hard but there were those who would still go home to awful things, to their men having spent their wages on booze. (It was the drunkest city in the British Empire at that time ) They had drink problems themselves. (In fact they were striking an early blow for female equality that way.) They would have their babies in the morning and be back behind a loom in the afternoon. So yes, we are so lucky to live today.
See yah at the Hellfire Club!!!!
Wow, you’ve got a lot of history at your fingertips. That’s awesome. 👏❤️ 🍺 🍻 🥃!
I used to edit a history mag. I do love history. I just prefer that love to be coming from this time. Lol. xxxxx
And also Die Erste Eslarner Zeitugn xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx for this
Have you ever heard of the Hellfire Club? The Lot of Women in Georgian England-reblog | shehan… https://bizmarc.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/have-you-ever-heard-of-the-hellfire-club-the-lot-of-women-in-georgian-england-reblog-shehanne-moore/ … via @EslarnerZeitung
Those poor dudes. You’d think they’d be thankful for the break… 😉 xxxxxxxxx
No no. It is their pleasure to torture me xxxxxxxxxxx
LOL! 🙂
Fascinating facts, Shey. You sure know your history and make it zing on the page. Hellfire Club here I come!
Oh aye, I’d have rather have had bitta fun there Kate, frankly. At least you could go to the ‘pub’ of the day and have a few. Many years ago in another life, I interviewed Wendy Moore, who wrote the biography of Mary Bowes… Boy, was that an interesting book xxxxxxxx Now, I hear you are away, away, so enjoy, enjoy xxxxxxxxxxxxx ( PS, Mr is fair reading your book every afternoon. )
Bizmarc. Eslarner Zeitung xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for this reblog
England-reblog https://bizmarc.wordpress.com/2017/05/23/have-you-ever-heard-of-the-hellfire-club-the-lot-of-women-in-georgian-england-reblog/ … via @EslarnerZeitung
Nice BLOG!!! ADD my blog!!! Kisses!!!! Nice POST ❤ ❤ ❤
Aw, thank you. You got a nice blog too you know , so have some xxxxxx from me. Lovely to connect.
Very nice one dear
thank you so much for good sharing
kisses
Kisses to you my lovely Voulaah. Have a wonderful week. xxx
Loved the post. Amazing and the pictures are lovely ♡
I really enjoyed doing this post for Christy at her blog. She absolutely believes in inspiring women, so I wanted to talk a bit about how awful it was for women in England at that time. Thrilled you enjoyed. Thank you so much my friend. xx
It is my privilege to be able to read your work ma’am and through you come across Christy’s blog. Thank you Ma’am ♡
This was a lovely well researched piece of writing, Shey. Most interesting!
Robbie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Your cakes would have fair changed this though xxx
“not allowed to do certain things!” Love it Shey though I would not have wanted to live in those times! I’m in the midst of reading and what a wonderful interview on Christy’s blog!!
Aw my lovely Cybele,….. the dudes go, dune mouse, cos sometimes they know we go by aliases.. you and me would have occupied cave.s And as long as we got the vino and all in on a sat nite, we would have been good and creative the rest of the week… xxx
I hadn’t realised how awful things were for women back then – I knew about it from earlier times, but still so dreadful only 300-400 years ago…!
Well, I am reckoning the Scottish women would have told the men where to go . The Celts, the Picts, the Vikings, kind of gave women their place. ok they kept slaves but if you are looking at how they treated their women that is kind of a separate thing. But I am guessing the bottom line is the basics that really improved it for women. I mean despite coming from the city where we waited for the rest of the women to catch up my great grandmother had like 15 children and eventually lived in a shed as a semi tinker apparently cos enough was enough.
Die Erste Eslarner Thank you for this reblog xxxxxxxxx
https://t.co/bQ2Zg4m8Kv
This one is really nice…😊😊😊
Aw hugs. So kind xxxxx
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Great interview and information about how women operated and were treated during earlier times. Boy, am I glad those times have come and gone. And yet, there are still women tied to ridiculous rules and practices. You’ve written an interesting book, one I can’t wait to read.
I am glad these times have gone too Ann. Mind you as I said to Christy Birmingham who I originally did this post for, if we had been talking Scottish ladies these posts would have been quite different!!! And I am wondering if that is because of the kind of tribal split whereby way back the Romans conquered England but while they were up in the lands of the Celts and the Picts, they never conquered them. And the northern tribes like the Celts, the Picts and even the later Vikings, gave their women their place– I am not talking their slaves. They had women as rulers. It was a concept the Romans could not get their heads around. And I am wondering how much of that passed on down. I did enjoy taking a very modern hard bitten, slightly off the rails woman and putting her down in this society. It was a concept I wanted to explore. And I was trying to think —hopefully, I sometimes do– of the business of how it was for men too in that time. Yes, the hero is very much king of his world, but is he. We hear about women in these awful unhappy marriages but I was also trying to portray a man who was unhappily married for years and driven by that to behave a certain way. But underneath a man who would have preferred a more equal marriage than the times allowed. ANS you are right there are women still tied to silly things. Ann, you are a darling as always and thank you thank you for wanting to read this. It is the story of Malice-from the Viking and the Courtesan’s– grandmother as a young woman.
Excellent post, ladies! I was kind of shocked by the water pump incident too, but I think it was a great moment both because it reflects the historical reality and because it shocks the reader.
By the way, I’ve got your latest book, Shey. I’ve been delayed in reading it because of travel, but looking forward to it immensely!
I think Brittany and Mitchell were shocked by that incident. My ed wanted me to remove it, just as she was shocked when I said Mitchell for his time, is quite enlightened. But I argued for it because I felt it did what you said. Reflect the times and gave her a shake…for a few moments. Interestingly the UK ‘native’ folks thought it was funny……. I always think that is interesting how different cultures see things differently. Carolee, you are an angel. An angel. Thnak you so much. I promise no water pump incidents but there’s others…. x